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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1532
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Posted - 2015.11.02 13:29:15 -
[1] - Quote
Can there just be a single 'Common recurring super pilot whiney stuff' thread that can be stickied and collect all this stuff?
Removing supers from the game would remove a lot of negativity, whines, hurt feelings, angst and just boring game play.
Just saying.
TL/DR Sell your super if you don't like the gameplay that is involved with it. This is not rocket science. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1535
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Posted - 2015.11.02 15:54:48 -
[2] - Quote
I'd only be willing to part with the watch list if local is removed at the same time. Free intel being free intel, let's bundle this and get it all done at once.
And there it is in a nutshell. Big null blocks w/ a herd of supers they want to play with say free intel is bad when it divulges the status of their super pilots, BUT if it aids their bearish inland activities and lines their wallets then it's just fine.
This is hypocracy at its best.
TL/DR If you can afford a super then you can afford to protect it and *gasp* to lose it. Just like everything else in eve - board at your own risk (muttering just loud enough for folks to hear) *pampered*bit*h*s* |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1537
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Posted - 2015.11.02 18:26:38 -
[3] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Agreed. You shouldn't be able to watch list people without their permission.
Double agree, you shouldn't be able to shoot people without their permission either - especially if you're flying a super. (sarcasm)
CCP could launch a whole new advertising campaign based on watchlist permission:
EVE online a friendly space game where everything is as it should be - consensual. Come play our family game where mutual permission and respect are the key building vast empires of BFFs. Explore our vast sandbox, see the raibow nebuli, the Flower Planets and the golden asteroid belts. EVE online where holding the door for you friends is coded right into the game.
This thread is at best a troll, median a self centered whine and at it worst - a redundant thread that should have been closed before page 2 happened. This has been argued at great length several times. Locky locky please. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1538
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Posted - 2015.11.02 19:38:31 -
[4] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:Repo Industries moved some ships thru a wormhole last night - We would of attacked you but after watch-listing we decided that attacking the confessor running the Blood site was not worth it - because too many of you online.
The Megathron parked at the WH was also an interesting target we had a cloaked Onxy next to it and some friends with a T3 & stealth bombers but the watch list was too much of a deterrent to attack especially since we couldn't find mooninites Heretic after he popped that Imicus and were not sure if the Stradious was from your Corp or not
Point being - without the watch list as a deterrent we would probably had a go & got slaughtered - Ships saved by Us content lost for you
Now you can Locky-Locky
We got slaughtered a few days ago by sleeper social club. We knew what was coming and we took the fight anyway. We figured we could get 3 of them, but only got 1. Poop happens.
The mega was on the hs because he rolled himself out.
I can't help you if you'll only fight when it's a sure win.
Now that we're all caught up on local events:
Here's the thing w/ the watchlist argument - it's a lot bigger than 2 small wh corps being bad at wormholes. This whole thread is about self indulgent sup pilots being sissy sallies and trying to change game mechanics so that the big target they longingly hopped into is harder to hunt and catch (Aridia) and/or so large groups can't be monitored when they have all their super pilots log in at the same time (large hammer drops).
They want to be able to log on 60+ supers and drop them w/ out being countered by an equivalent force. This is really really high end risk aversion at it's best. My corp and your corp are pretty insignificant in this whole thing. This isn't about empire war dec watch lists or something you cobble together seconds after you see someone jump into your wh. This is about fleets worth trillions of isk and lobbying to keep them safe.
What you and I do on our small gang wh level is totally insignificant in the watch list discussion. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1540
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Posted - 2015.11.03 11:50:04 -
[5] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Madd Adda wrote:Rowells wrote: Does a watchlist have those limitations? No. It is 100% accurate, 100% of the time and is bad along similar lines to local channels. There is no ambiguity, no interpretation, no possibility of interference or false-positives, no fun. Just buttons and bacon.
and what info does watchlists ALONE provide? oh right, just if a pilot is now online/offline. That's it. much has your example of killboards, watchlists only provide so much info. Do you know where your target is? nope. Do you know what they are doing? nope. Are they flying Gankalysts and coming for you? who knows? I'll try explaining it again. an online/offline indicator isn't broken. You need other intel sources like locator agents to even make use of it. Yoy are missing the point and focusing on the wrong thing, it doesn't matter if it only provides one part of the puzzle. What if I had a tool that tells me what ship a pilot is in at all times, regardless of his login status. Or a locator that auto updates? Or the neighboring system local list? You want to know why the watchlist is so powerful? Because it is the only tool that tells you if you can even attempt to affect someone. I could never look at a single killboard, or run a single locator. If I'm chasing you down, and I have you watch listed, I know exactly when to wait. I know when to hunt. And if i know who you are connected to, I'll watchlist them too. As soon as backup logs in I start eyeing my exits. Knowing that a completely logged out character (ship and all) is unable to be affected by active players, tells them exactly when to work. And it works against everyone. So like my last example you keep ignoring, how would you hunt someone who does not leave a kill report in every system the go into? You can look at all the killboards and evewhos and run every locator in new Eden, how are you going to know WHEN?
Are you for removing local also? It's the biggest free intel in the game.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1541
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Posted - 2015.11.03 13:28:19 -
[6] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:afkalt wrote: I routinely leave my accounts logged in when I am sleeping. Often cloaked and in space too.
What worth is your intel in that situation? I'll help, bugger all.
It only matters a damn for supers and only because they can't dock and that's now got an expiration date too.
Well, good for you. Behaviour like that (people logged in all the time) is easy to spot, I'm talking about people that log in prior to doing things though - and those people are the vast majority. With a simple click of a few buttons, I can crosscheck zkill and get their (from experience) likely avaiable fleetcomp within a minute roughly. To do that, the cloaky AFK toon I got orbiting my hole only has to spot a single ship jumping in after the wh wobble sound, copy the name and paste it, and then paste some names back to eve. Voila, accurate intel (atleast it's been accurate on a very regular basis). So by seeing one guy, I know what their people like to fly (via zkill, no complaint here), but I also know who is online, which ships exactly are avaiable to them, if their FC/vets are online and so on. I'm not complaining about knowing that you're cloaked and in bed. I'm complaining about being able to call their fleetcomp, proficiency and calculate my odds without doing more than copypaste, rightclick watchlist. Being able to tell that they have a falcon, a rapier, a tengu, something gallente AF-cruiser and maybe 2 bombers ONLINE just by pasting their scanner's name into zkill is - imo - not good. The second bomber turned out to be an astero, and the gallente AF-cruiser was an enyo in the end and the tengu cloaked up when their rapier exploded. So yeah... Use watchlist, pick easy fight. E: Serendipity Lost wrote:Are you for removing local also? It's the biggest free intel in the game.
If you can see them, they can see you. Sending a watchlist notification is optional.
The local thing is more powerful than than the watchlist. On a day to day basis it allows far more folks all over eve avoid conflict. Red in local.... get to station. Wait out the red. Knowing a guy just logged in gives you an inference of things that may occur in the next what... 20 minutes to an hour. Seeing a guy or spike in local gives you immediate free intel. You don't have to police your space, you just have to watch local and dock.
But this aids the risk averse, so the OP doesn't see it as a problem. He's looking for a safer more risk averse eve. Local allows more folks (macro's included) to avoid pvp all day every day. At least the warch list is situational and requires more effort than scrolling local chat.
hypocracy |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1543
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Posted - 2015.11.04 11:57:36 -
[7] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Avvy wrote:However, it doesn't change the fact that locator agents and watch-lists can be used as griefing tools. The problem with a game like this one is it can be very difficult to know when it's actual griefing as the lines become blurred in a game with not many boundaries. Like I said, actual grief play is an issue for the GMs. What the mechanics allow is player interaction, which is fundamentally a good thing. Only very few player interactions are actually undesirable.
You're being griefed if you have to lock your door because they are coming up your front steps IRL. Excessive griefing is when you have to reload. The in game stuff is just pixels. There are a lot of other games out there that draw the line in a different location. Feel free to choose to play where you are comfortable. It's your money PICK a game that makes you happy, don't try to change a perfectly good game that you are not comfortable with.
Sometimes I think folks forget that eve is a space fantasy alternate (non) reality. It's rules and terms of engagement have zero to do with the real life morals and scruples. You're logging into a fantasy, not a model/replica of real life. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1544
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 18:37:41 -
[8] - Quote
I've never seen a group of video game players whine because they were popular... until super pilots. You're all like that GF I dumped in 10th grade because no matter what was given to her or what she had.... she just wouldn't stop whining.
WH space doesn't have Local AND it doesn't have a macro problem..... just saying. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1546
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Posted - 2015.11.05 14:38:48 -
[9] - Quote
Consensual only watch list now. Consensual only pvp next.
The premise of this entire thread is baseless whining. It's redundant to other threads. It's not a feature or an idea (it's a cry for a handout).
Please lock |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1549
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 17:47:19 -
[10] - Quote
I think deep down CCP is working to bring supers back into balance. I don't see a forum plea to nix the watchlist for the sake of safe mass super logins is going to get a lot of traction. The incoming changes are taking what I am anticipating as large steps towards supers popping in staggering numbers. The 'tar baby' effect will pull down many more supers than watch list intel ever will. They'll either be tackled and left to die a solo death or help will come and glorious explosions will happen. |
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1555
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Posted - 2015.11.06 12:41:04 -
[11] - Quote
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:I don't fly nor care to fly supercaps. But I do Agree the Watchlist should get the nerf hammer to it. I will not lie I abuse the hell out of the watch list especially for Campers and Blops Pilots. They are more using log off traps then anything. They work, Im not crying about that at all. Pilots fly with blinders on.
What I don't agree with is the ability to see when players log on and off from clear across the universe without having to even know them. Watch list has been around for how many years now, If super pilots havent learned that you should have the area scouted before log in by now... Then its to the scrapyard for ya. But I am all for getting rid of free intel or delaying it. Even if it means my corp and I are at risk more. The fact is , in its current iteration I can tell when a logged off pilots gets back in game before his screen is even done loading. Any intelligent pilots know to GTFO to safety unless they know whats on the other side of that ship. That in my eyes is poor design. I am not saying get rid of the Watch list, or have players need to approve being added to a list.
Hell forget the whole Null-sec crying over it, when I lived in hi-sec we would watch list entire corporations or alliances that we war-decced or that war-decced us. We would decide if we should log in to play at that time or just hit a different game up depending on what we could do with the amount of targets online.
I would suggest a delay on the watch list notifications. Maybe somewhere around 3-10 minutes or so. Remove the ability to know someone came on before their screen is even finished loading. This keeps the watch list functionality but also gets rid of the Instant Intel ability that so many complain about. While this change or any change to be honest to the functionality of the list would irritate groups that rely on instant intel Vs visually collected intel. This would be a buff to anyone who does Log-off traps/blops/cloaky camp. Log off traps now have a better chance of working. War-Decced corps might be willing to undock and fly with the thought of, well he hasn't appeared on my list yet - means I haven't appeared on his.. quick run to X system with goods and roll the dice. But it also gives those Space Coffins a little extra time to react and have screens load etc. If you want to know if that Coffin logged in, well Locators tell you its last system and old fashioned sitting in a system will let you know when they logged in.
I think a Delay Vs Removal of watch list or "Approval system" would be more accepted bitterly by the warring groups over this system. Also remember, It's called a "Watch List" not a "friends list" or "Acquaintance list". The entire purpose around it was for Intel. But when it was created in its day compared to now has completely changed with new concepts developed around counter-logged off alts near where players logged, as well as stronger understanding of the mechanics and the sheer amount of Coffins this gets used on compared to the past.
How do you feel about removing local also? If we're nerfing free intel, let's get it all. I abuse the hell out of local all the time. I scroll through it and see exactly who is in system and it's even color coded to alert me to who is my friend and who isn't.
Here's the big problem with that. I don't even know the 1000s of dudes that are my friends or my enemies. It would be fair play that you need permission on an individual basis to set standings with someone.
No half way save my super crap here. If eve is going to a 'permission required' game of friends online, the let's do it right. If you need permission to watchlist a player, then you need permission to set standings with a player. Bad corps have good people in them. By proxy the Provi KOS list needs to go. My corp is KOS for actions take years ago by folks that no longer play the game.
Clean it all up - don't do a halfassed job that ony benefits super owners. Do it right and let it benefit everyone.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1555
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Posted - 2015.11.06 12:43:47 -
[12] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:yes, the watchlist in current form is broken. The person you watchlist should have to accept the request first.
Do you feel the same way about setting standings? If someone needs my permission to watchlist me, then they should also need my permission to set stanings. Standings label me as good, bad or neutral whenever I enter a system. That's a lot more immediately useful free intel than any watchlist ever provided. Also, get rid of setting standings between corps and alliances - it should only be on an individual basis. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1555
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 12:50:23 -
[13] - Quote
oops |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1563
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Posted - 2015.11.06 17:37:56 -
[14] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:yes, the watchlist in current form is broken. The person you watchlist should have to accept the request first. Do you feel the same way about setting standings? If someone needs my permission to watchlist me, then they should also need my permission to set stanings. Standings label me as good, bad or neutral whenever I enter a system. That's a lot more immediately useful free intel than any watchlist ever provided. Also, get rid of setting standings between corps and alliances - it should only be on an individual basis. You mean local chat.
No. I do want to get rid of local chat, but I mean if I need permission to watchlist someone because 'free intel' then everyone else should need my permission to set standings with me because 'free intel'.
This thread is about getting rid of 'free intel' so I want the little red - or blue + to be removed from local chat.
If it's unfair to know when a person is logged in somewhere in the game, it's definitely unfair for someone to know my character name and my standings toward them until I'm on grid with them.\
Part of the hypocracy of this whole thread is that knowing I'm logged in to Eve somewhere is viewed as unfair intel but knowing I'm in your system (which is an arbitrary spherical thing) is not unfair.
Here's my question: From an immersion standpoint, how is magically finding out I'm in the universe different that magically finding out I'm in the same system as you are? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1574
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Posted - 2015.11.10 12:05:16 -
[15] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Rowells wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:yes, the watchlist in current form is broken. The person you watchlist should have to accept the request first. Do you feel the same way about setting standings? If someone needs my permission to watchlist me, then they should also need my permission to set stanings. Standings label me as good, bad or neutral whenever I enter a system. That's a lot more immediately useful free intel than any watchlist ever provided. Also, get rid of setting standings between corps and alliances - it should only be on an individual basis. You mean local chat. No. I do want to get rid of local chat, but I mean if I need permission to watchlist someone because 'free intel' then everyone else should need my permission to set standings with me because 'free intel'. This thread is about getting rid of 'free intel' so I want the little red - or blue + to be removed from local chat. If it's unfair to know when a person is logged in somewhere in the game, it's definitely unfair for someone to know my character name and my standings toward them until I'm on grid with them.\ Part of the hypocracy of this whole thread is that knowing I'm logged in to Eve somewhere is viewed as unfair intel but knowing I'm in your system (which is an arbitrary spherical thing) is not unfair. Here's my question: From an immersion standpoint, how is magically finding out I'm in the universe different that magically finding out I'm in the same system as you are? you do realize that before standings (and presumably after) there were tools and ways of getting a friend or foe designator for you? Also, I'm loving this "who gave him permission to have an opinion on me??" Idea. You're trying a little too hard there. You gonna try and argue that you need permission to write notes about someone next? There's quite a difference between the game telling me when another player does something, and indicating a notation I have made myself. Btw, it's not 'free' Intel, if someone made it. Game doesn't automatically decide who is friend and who is not. And again, your problem is local chat. Not standings.
You're not getting it. I'm fine w/ the watch list and want it to stay. In true forum fashion I'm asking for an unreasonable compromise. Consensual watchlisting should be accompanied by consensual setting of standings. They are both equally rediculous to me. The difference is that super flying null bears would love to do w/out watchlisting,but couldn't bear to part with reds and blues. It's about them wanting everything in their favor.
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